I write;I think;I know.

[11:50]   <xaphod> i've been with Vodaphone since forever
[11:51] 	** Wiggy checks, and sure enough, xaphod's vodafone contract is mentioned in
		   the preface to genesis
[11:51]    <Wiggy> except, you can't see that preface, because you're not one of the
		   inner circle
[11:52]   <xaphod> you got access to the disclaimer page?
[11:52]    <Wiggy> I read a joke on the ASI blog the other day
[11:52]    <Wiggy> surgeon, architect and an economist arguing over whose profession was
		   the oldest
[11:53]    <Wiggy> the surgeon says "well, god made adam from one of eve's ribs, and
		   that's surgery, so it's obvious"
[11:53]    <Wiggy> and the architect says "ahhh, but before that, god made order from
		   chaos, and that's architecture"
[11:53]    <Wiggy> the economist says "you not worked out where the chaos came from?"
[11:54] 	** Wiggy badda-tishes
[11:54]   <xaphod> heh
[11:54]    <Wiggy> OK, it's obviously a joke for economics geeks, and it *was* the Adam
		   Smith Institute blog, so...
[11:54]   <xaphod> actually, I've been wondering about the Economy.
[11:55]    <Wiggy> Don't. It's one of those things that will make your head hurt
[11:55]   <xaphod> Does the Economy work inspite of rather than because of Economists and
		   government Economic policy?
[11:55]   <xaphod> any yes.  it make my head hurt.
[12:02]    <Gedge> depends how you define "work" and who you ask - right-wingers: "in
		   spite of govt", left-wingers: "because of"
[12:03]    <Gedge> either way, the result is a bastardisation, unless you're a liberal :)
[12:03]   <xaphod> well "work" as in do it's thing,  and I'm talking reality rather than
		   opinion.
[12:04] 	** xaphod realises that this is, of course, impossible to discover.
[12:05]    <Gedge> heh, "do its thing" - you studied economics, didn't you?
[12:05] 	** Glyn meditates on whether the economy has the Buddha nature
[12:06]  <samwise> *everything* has the Buddha nature
[12:06]  <samwise> you have to work out where it is...
[12:07] 	** Glyn hits samwise with his stick
[12:07]  <samwise> maybe it's in the bit that says "Ah yes, free enterprise, market
		   forces will solve everything, let's lower the trade barriers, oh, hold
		   on, we need to massively subsidise our cotton farmers"
[12:07] 	** Gedge types the following and then decides it's a bad idea:  well, if you
		   define "economy" as "governmentally-constrained largely-free market", then
		   it's working
[12:08]  <samwise> The Economy is as ephemeral as a koan
[12:08]    <Gedge> or if you define it as "the system of trading by which most people
		   gain most happiness", then you're into the realms of politics :)
[12:09]   <xaphod> Or how about the "system by which resources get transfered and
		   allocated"
[12:10] 	** xaphod wonders what's sam's been reading (and what he was smoking at the
		   time)
[12:10]    <Gedge> but that will happen in any system - so there are no criteria for
		   success ("it works")
[12:10]  <samwise> Or how about "Let's convince the population at large that this is the
		   *only* way the World can possibly work"
[12:10]  <samwise> the economy is fake. it's all built on sand.
[12:10]    <Gedge> wet sand
[12:11]    <Gedge> the sand is people's hopes, the water is people's confidence
[12:11]   <xaphod> ah, nicely put.
[12:11]  <samwise> and that's all there is
[12:12]    <Gedge> perhaps, lack of confidence
[12:12]    <Gedge> are you saying that the economy is a silicon-based life-form?
[12:12]   <xaphod> Well I've been considering today's economy in terms of what was deemed
		   important back in the 80s...
[12:12]  <samwise> no, there's not really any sand
[12:12]  <samwise> it's a metaphor, you see ;)
[12:13] 	** samwise once knew a girl who thought that Schrodinger had really put a cat
		   into a box with a bottle of poison
[12:13]    <Gedge> perhaps she knew him
[12:14]    <Gedge> and he preferred visualisation over metaphors
[12:14]   <xaphod> I've met people who thought it was a real experiment too.
[12:15]   <xaphod> anyway, in 80s terms I think we'd have to claim our economy is fucked.
[12:16]    <Gedge> hmm, how so?  low unemployment (ish), low interest... those were '80s
		   criteria were they not?
[12:16]   <xaphod> balance of payments and levels of inward investment
[12:18] 	** xaphod wonders if the governments job is really just to piss on the
		   sand...
[12:18]    <Gedge> why would they want to do that?
[12:18]   <xaphod> keep it wet.
[12:18]    <Gedge> in order to...?
[12:19]    <Gedge> not allow it to stabilise?
[12:19]   <xaphod> "the sand is people's hopes, the water is people's confidence"
[12:19]     <Glyn> wet sand is better for building sandcastles
[12:20]    <Gedge> well, wetness has a bell-curve on the stability graph
[12:20] 	** Gedge puts himself in pseuds corner for a 10-minute sin-binning.
[12:21]   <xaphod> nope, coz if you take into account consumer confidence and the levels
		   of debt then that extends the metaphor quite nicely.
[12:25]    <Wiggy> http://iconoplex.com/node/51
[12:26]  <samwise> heh
[12:28]   <xaphod> Funny how enlightenment jumps out on you.  I've been contemplating
		   this for over a week.
[12:28] 	** samwise salutes Gedge for his insight
[12:29] 	** xaphod salutes samwise, was a team effort :-)
[12:29]    <Gedge> hive mind :)